The Destiny Church’s Bishop Brian Tamaki is in my view the only true Christian church leader in the land.
First however, if it’s not already known to readers, I’ve devoted my life to mocking religion. Anthropologists have identified over 3,500 religions throughout history, all with different Gods. Not one of the buggers has ever actually appeared on earth. In short religion is classic conspiracy theory, namely an unseen force calling all the shots.
But equally, as a libertarian I respect each to their own and if folk want to buy into this fantasy then that’s their affair.
Bishop Tamaki, alone among our various Christian outfits, is consistent in his belief in an all powerful loving God who will protect the faithful.
He has told the government to get stuffed with their refusal to allow conventional church services, and all credit to him for that.
He accurately slammed the current state of affairs as nanny-statism and the government as like “over controlling parents”. He also referred to the New Zealand Bill of Rights, section 15, specifically “the freedom to manifest religion or belief in worship, observance practise and teaching either publicly or privately”.
In short regarding his belief he and he alone of the sky-baying mobs puts his money where his mouth is.
To that Auckland Anglican vicar the Reverend Dr Helen Jacobi says Tamaki saying that followers of Jesus will be protected from coronavirus is incredibly unsafe.
Helen’s outfit, the oldest Protestant church, is in its death spiral. Its membership has halved in Britain in the last 15 years and currently Sunday services there average 14 attendees.
Helen’s utterances bow to the government’s wishes over those of her God. If she doesn’t believe her God chap will protect her from the virus then surely that’s God’s wishes to knock her off.
Aside from that where’s her martyr’s spirit?
And if God wants her in heaven then surely she’s eager to get there, having I imagine, babbled away about the wonders of Paradise to her flock over the years.
The indisputable fact is that all bar Bishop Tamaki of the various Christian churches, are utter hypocrites in professing faith in their deity to protect them. Plainly by their actions they don’t believe a word of it, a bloody sensible decision to be sure, but massively inconsistent with their advocacy.
61 Comments
Bless you and all those that worship at your feet.
Faith is a wonderful thing that never ceases to amaze and horrify that people can profess to believe such wildly inconsistent and irrational stuff – a deep need to feel they are not irrelevant to the universe.
But remember, materialism is a faith as well. A faith that declares a giant clock can experience itself, and that a universe perfectly turned to life can give birth to itself out of nothing. And people believe this sometimes because the conclusion is so blunt and simple that they don’t have to think anymore about it, which means otherwise confronting the horror that is the meaning of absolute death, and because they can also turn their backs on their better judgment because it makes no difference if you live a corrupt life or not – there will be form of final accountability.
My point is, that the simple-thinking materialist can be just as tragic as the religious goon.
Most people will dismiss your comment after reading the first sentence. And rightly so. What you have said makes absolutely no sense at all. None.
You are a Dreamer your head is in the sand buddy?🤣
I agree there are all kinds of ways to be stupid and/or horrible and declare some justification out of thin air. Some are organised and some are individual.
David,
Thanks for the reply, “buddy”. Just don’t turn your back on your better judgement (we all quitely know when we are doing it) and you will be fine, I promise. Zeus will take you in.
Jordon,
Materialism is a faith, because it’s a belief that everything is ‘material’ as we know it, and everything is composed of it. We don’t know that – it’s ultimately a belief. A faith.
@ Jordan & David Tahere
While Andrew Atkin may have over-sold his case that materialists have “faith” like that of theists, he is nonetheless right that as matter alone – atoms, molecules, complex chemical compounds found in astronomical bodies or organisms- do not produce reason/logic, the materialist has no explanation and/or consistent grounds to account from whence it came. Nor, if material is all we truly have within the Universe, why it should be appealed to as a form and method of authority, like the religious do with their alleged revelation.
Sure, reason and logic, including the most basic of 1+1=2 exist. However, as they are non-material abstractions, then when you appeal to reason/logic to falsify Andrew Atkin’s (admittedly imprecise) assertion, you are appealing to a non-material method and authority. Hence due to your contradiction of logic, you are disproving your own claim.
That is all.
@Kimbo, that there is no way to know is not a justification for any claim to know. Nor is it a justification for bizarre claims that are internally contradictory or contradict known facts.
@ Alan Wilkinson
Sorry, but your lack of precision, or at least my dullness of comprehension is confusing.
What are the “bizarre claims that are internally contradictory or contradict known facts” to which you refer? The supposed proofs, including revelation for existence of God(s)? Sure, or at least extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence…although everyone will likely disagree as to what constitutes sufficient evidence, be it historical, metaphysical and/or (to satisfy the materialists) empirically demonstrable and/or repeatable.
Or Andrew Atkins clumsy yet valid (IMHO) claim that the philosophy and/or practice of strict materialism requires some sort of (for want of a better word) “faith”? That is, at the very least one has to use non-contingent and nonmaterialistic abstract metaphysical means such as reason (as you have just done) by which to explain, justify and practice materialism. Or, as you’ve just done, at least try and negate the non-materialist alternatives.
So whatever the failings of theism, it seems that materialists too are in some way (to quote you) “contradictory”.
Can I provide a direct link to my views to make myself more clear?
I’m actually a painfully logical person.
https://andrewatkin.blogspot.com/2019/07/the-mechanical-argument-for-life-after.html
The lord infectith, and the lord protectith…
I agree with your comments on Brian Tamaki
I agree with your comments on Brian Tamaki.
One God has actually appeared on earth – about 2000 years ago.
I am too young to confirm that sorry can you send me the photos or video of it
Photos or video only? But that measure you would have to discount the existence of anyone before the 1840s. No Alexander the Great, Spartacus, Julius Caesar, Wat Tyler, William Shakespeare, Napoleon…
Wow – were you there?
Phil, you are mistaken. There is no god. There is no devil. There is no Santa. There is no Tooth Fairy. Your mother was yanking your chain.
Ah ha, so it was his mother. I prematurely concluded Phil was indulging in a spot of self gratification.
Good old Bish-Brian. Managed to establish a business with a massive tax advantage, so he’s not completely without a brain. I’m not so sure about your claim that he puts his money where his mouth is. It seems to me he puts a helluva lot of it into toy shops, with his fancy motorbikes and other goodies, befitting a Bishop of course.
Yet again another typical response
Which is a typical defensive and vacuous response defending a religious shyster, peddling the modern equivalent of indulgences. As per my citation below of Martin Luther nailing up his 95 theses, the Johann Tetzel’s of this world are ever ready to ply their trade among the gullible, be they religious, or suckers for multi-level marketing, timeshares, and other assorted get-rich-quick schemes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Tetzel
Finally, someone who speaks the truth!
Great article, very much agreed.
…ha ha really funny to read your comments and SO true. As good as Billy Connolly in full stride Sir Bob, ( whether you like that or not). Sadly and seriously however all I seem to think about with the madness we’re blindly falling into is ,what part of Australia would suit my life style the best. I’ll bet Brian’s got a bolt hole !!
Your right. When it’s time to make a stand all other churches are hiding in their closets. Proud to be Destiny
Great articles Bob in a era devoid of honest journalism. The older I get (I am in my 40s) the more of a libertarian I am becoming when it comes to the state. The separation of church and state in the US was not to protect the state from the church, but the church from the state. As a christian I am more than happy to take my chances with a virus that is not unlike those that have been popping up again and again for thousands of years, it doesn’t mean I will not wash my hands. The struggle I have is remaining subservient to the rules and orders of a government I do not feel is representing the best interests of its people or acting democratically. Our media has been asleep at the wheel. Please consider investing in our broken media Bob- we need more free thinkers, facts and not just the opinions of those who have yet to achieve anything.
Details please Phil Wild.
What was her name for starters?
Sir Bob have taken your advice and tomorrow off to look at a church for sale in Ohai. Not only will the upcoming depression guarantee me a solid flock but the Chinese will need coal as it looks like they are going to tell the Aussie exporters to get stuffed. A location, location, location if I have ever seen one.
Funnily put ‘Sirley’ Bob.. you come out like a true but deluded fighter… knowing you’re going to be knocked clear out of the ring on your day of reckoning but convinced that on ‘that’ day, placing a couple of bets on the true champion will give you a token of favor with the Referee of our souls
Sir Robert, you are much too generous to Mr Tamaki. Perhaps you are favouring his kind of religion where his parishioners are literally his Golden Goose, whilst your faithfully Screaming Goose, though your admirer, donates not to your coffers.
It seems much more likely to me that Mr Tamaki believes he is more needing of tithes than other churches. No services means no tithes and he may not be able to replace the expensive toys gifted on him by his supporters.
From my understanding of Christian values no caring Christian faith would encourage parishioners to attend church services if there is any danger to their congregation. And would certainly not encourage the elderly to take such risks given the current situation.
But frankly, I have no idea why the hell we were not back to unrestricted normal a week ago, but continuing the safe hygienic practices, a statistically valid testing regime and continuing our great care and protection of the elderly and the weak or CV-19 vulnerable.
You make me smile Goose, somehow.
Then that is moist definitely a win win! Even this den of iniquity needs a few smiles. Kindness being mostly lacking…
All the very best to you Caleb!
Honk honk! (truth is geese can’t scream…but ssshhhh don’t tell The Knight!)
Brian Tamaki tends to be quite consistent with his messaging and the mainstream media hate him so he must be doing something right. Churches have failed to convince people of the validity of the Bible because there is no consistent message of “what is truth” across the denominations. Human pride is at work here.
Sir Bob. Atheism is a religion too. It’s just that the god is within and not without. Everyone has a religion the question is who’s god should I follow cause I can’t escape following one…..it is impossible. The one that says He has the power over life and death and will grant an eternal life freely to anyone who wants it (with a few conditions….not based on how “good” you are”) gets my attention. I think you’d agree that there are a lot of things wrong with this world. Can it be put right? The Bible says it will be. From Gods perspective it’s been a very wild ride. We only have very short life spans. Gods get to see it all. People say if there truly is one all powerful God why does he sit back in his sun lounger and do nothing? He’s not doing nothing but because he loves true freedom he won’t force issues or behavioral changes that would be required to see the kind of world we all want to live in, namely peaceful and prosperous. He wants us to want his way of doing things not have it forced on us. But here’s the kicker……….everything is on a probationary timeline. We all get allotted our lifespan, countries and nations may be hundreds of years and the world itself several thousand. When those probationary periods finish God acts. Individuals die, countries are destroyed if they have become steeped in idolatrous behaviors and the world itself will also come to its endpoint for the same reason.(but it will be rebuilt from the ground up….no pun intended) I believe the prophetic time line is clear. We are in the final phase or so of earths history. A fair and reasonable study of the prophesies can’t bring one to any other conclusion. Most churches are very ignorant of the Bible they espouse to believe in. I think they are largely past their use by date but the word is not.
Steinbass , thanks for helping us all to look on the bright side.
My pleasure 🙂 But hey the intention was to be positive. I am not worried about the future in terms of the big picture but not because I’m smarter than everyone else…I’m not. I’ve looked at the Biblical evidence and I am very certain about our march into a one world governemnt……this is predicted in Bible prophecy and will only last a very short time once it occurs. After that your in gravy as they say. Bottom line is there is an offer of eternal life on the table……You wont get old, you won’t get sick and neither will your significant others. Who can out bright side that? Sound too good to be true? Prophetic evidence suggests very strongly the word can be trusted. I would encourage you to at least keep this on your white board as a very real option for you and start your own research into end time prophecy to help build your confidence in something solid. Check out Larry Wilson at his website. Very reasonable, very logical….not a preacher. All the best to you.
Like you I am a Libertarian, unlike you I am a person of faith.
I’ve been pleading with my pastor for a few weeks to get together with leaders of other Churches and have the Church closures challenged under judicial review.
I pointed out the point isn’t necessarily to win but to challenge the precedent. Churches have not been forcibly closed by the Government in Common Law countries in over 800 years.
So far, no dice…
All I can say is When They Came.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me – and so they confiscated all the church’s property except of those they have promoted.
If there is a wise and caring god/God surely he/she/it would not want to risk a gathering that will may kill the weaker of his flock?
A little like the thinking of any decent leader.
As Bob rightly points out, a guy’s got to have a hobby. His is “mocking religion”, mine is being a pedant:
Christians believe that God has in fact appeared on earth, in the form of Jesus Christ: “The Word (God) became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory of the one and only who came from the Father, full of grace and truth”. (John 1:14)
And the Lutherans, not the Anglicans, are the oldest Protestant church, predating Henry VIII’s break with Rome by some 15 years, starting with the moment Martin Luther nailed up his 95 theses to the Wittenberg Castle Church door on 31 October 1517. The Lutheran Church did not come into formal existence on that day. However, during the next few years as the resulting controversy grew, it became abundantly clear to all concerned, especially after Luther was dismissed from the Diet of Worms in 1521, that Luther was no longer a Roman Catholic, and his rediscovery of Biblical doctrine was incompatible with continued communion with Rome. Hence the Lutheran Church came into formal existence in the 1520s, some 10 years before the Anglicans.
And interesting ironic factoid (or maybe not!), the English monarch’s hereditary title “Defender of the Faith”, was first given by the Pope to Henry VIII in 1521 when the latter wrote a polemic criticising the reforms of…Martin Luther. Included, in another delicious irony, included in Henry’s writings were a defence of the seven Catholic sacraments including unbreakable marriage, and Papal authority.
And in yet another irony, years later, when “the King’s great matter” of securing an heir came to a head and Henry broke with Rome between 1532 and 1534 to marry Anne Boleyn, he went cap in hand to the Lutherans to see if they would lend their political support for his divorce from Catherine of Aragon. And they responded in typical Teutonic inflexibility, and maybe a certain wry schadenfreude (they were German after all, so likely they did not see the humour in the situation!) with, “nein!”
Anyway, enough irony. Other than, from the perspective of Christian orthodoxy, Tamaki seems likely guilty of the sin of presumption: “Do not put the LORD your God to the test”. (Deuteronomy 6:16, echoed by Jesus in Matthew 4:7 and Luke 4:12).
That is all.
In answer, I post: The law is not a moral compass. The people who hid Anne Frank were breaking the law. The people who killed her were following it; for afteral Peter and the others said, and I quote cause i know Acts 5:29 “Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.” Long live The Bishop, I say. Long live The Bishop !
That is indeed , more than enough !
If the wall of Christendom falls, those who have been sheltering in its shade will feel the full wrath of the sun.
The ‘Bishop’ may get his trip tp Paradise a bit faster!
Brian Tamaki is right to challenge Jacinda’s Marxist dictatorship. This government is clearly riding rough-shod over the New Zealand Bill of Rights. ALL other churches should be challenging the Jacinda Dictatorship too. As should anyone who is not a Jacinda suck-puppy.
I think ya need a dollar each way otherwise at the end of the day ya could be completely buggered unless of course the Doctrine of Annihilation holds true. And if it does hold true one missed out on Paradise one does … am I the only tongue talking Christian that religiously follows Sir Bob ?
Goood grief. I’m wrong. I’m not alone !!~
I just hope that if Brian has any influence with ‘ Huey’ upstairs…he gets him to talk to ardern and robertson before tomorrows budget. Please tell them what they do in the budget is probably going to cripple NZ..further….any talk of a ‘helicopter’ payout is fatal. Mind you, giving the cops power of entry without warrant so they can count your friends; and gagging ministers from talking because..’ we’re so popular anyway’…well, you know the rest. She is looking more and more like a female ‘AH’…any you know who that was, too.
YOUR ARE RIGHT. DO OTHER CHURCHES ACTUALLY BELIEVE WHAT THEY PREACH? I’M NOT SO SURE THEY DO. TAMAKI DOES.
gods are a construct of the human mind, which seems predisposed to this kind of superstition when it is at loss to understand the natural world. Faith in science I can live with. Faith in mythical beings is for the fairies.
The alternative to god, is
“Absolutely everything was created
from absolutely nothing
for absolutely no reason”
… most people would have difficulty with this.
Stew,
No matter?
Most people would have difficulty with general relativity and quantum theory.
How does it go? – The only difference between atheists and the religious is one religion (more).
Disbelief I think you mean.
Yes, that’s right.
To rephrase: The only difference between atheists and the religious is disbelief in one religion (more).
“Most people” usually encompasses everyone but yourself.
Everyone has their own unique belief system.
Don’t try and press yours on me and I will not press mine on you.!
Vive la difference !
Sorry Bob but the C of E is not the oldest Protestant religion.
In England the first Protestant Church was formed by John Wycliffe 200 years before the Church of England became Protestant also Jan Hus and the Hussite wars all this was in the 1300’s
Those early reformers influenced Martin Luther & John Calvin in the 16th Century who influenced the C of E changing from Catholic to Protestant.
True prophets and the false can be recognized by the fruitage manifest in their lives and the lives of those who follow themMatt. 7:15-20: “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them. . . . Every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit . . . Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.”What characterizes their way of life? “The works of the flesh are . . . fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. . . . Those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom. On the other hand, the fruitage of [God’s] spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control.”—Gal. 5:19-23; see also 2 Peter 2:1-3